Inside Google Ads podcast: Episode 59 - Advanced Audience Targeting [PSA]
Can you guess where I am right now?
Okay, I'm obviously in my office where I usually am when I record this podcast, but today, March 13th, 2025, I'm in Amsterdam for the Friends of Search conference, speaking about advanced audience targeting strategies.
Because of this, it felt appropriate to drop a special episode today.
You see, a few weeks ago, I also spoke about advanced audience targeting strategies at the free online Paid Search Association conference.
I'll be speaking about this again at SMX Advanced in Boston in June and at Hero Conf in San Diego in September.
After all, my upcoming book, Inside Google Ads: Everything You Need to Know About Audience Targeting is about, well, audience targeting.
If you'd like to sign up to be notified when my book drops, it's coming in just a few weeks, you can go to free.jyll.ca. That's free.jyll.ca, tap the box to be notified when my book comes out.
But each time I speak about this topic, I'm going to make it a little different because I've got a lot to say about audiences. So in case you can't make it to see me live, I hope you enjoy this recording of me sharing my best advanced audience targeting tips for you.
This is straight from a recording from the online conference where I have about a 25-minute presentation and I included the Q&A as there's some great extra tidbits in there as well.
I'm your host, Jyll Saskin Gales. I spent six years working for big brands at Google, and now I work for you.
This is Inside Google Ads, Episode 59: Advanced Audience Targeting Strategies.
Let's have a listen.
I'm Jyll Saskin Gales. I use the pronouns she and her. And any good presentation has to start with a relatable story, right? So here's mine. I'm sure you've been in a similar situation.
You're planning a strategy for a new Google Ads campaign, say a Video campaign or a Demand Gen campaign. You figure out what audiences you want to use and what you want to exclude in this amazing targeting strategy.
You go to set it up, bumble your way through the initial few settings, and then you get to a screen that looks like this.
What the heck is this? What are custom search terms? Where did Combined Segments go? How come when I click exclusions, it only lets me exclude remarketing lists? And where did Custom Segments go? And suddenly this amazing strategy you had laid out will no longer work.
I've got news for you. Audience targeting in Google Ads is changing right before our eyes and not enough people are talking about it. Google sure isn't talking about it. As we just heard, and you've heard throughout the day, there's tons of PMax announcements and Demand Gen announcements but no one's announcing that you can't use Combined Segments in Video campaigns anymore, right?
Lots of us on LinkedIn and X and other platforms are often talking about a lot of changes to the platform, but I don't see enough people talking about audiences. So that's why I'm here today talking about it loudly.
I've also written a whole book about it, which comes out in a few weeks. This is a cover reveal. Inside Google Ads: Everything You Need to Know About Audience Targeting. And I'm giving you a sneak peek of some of the best audience targeting strategies today.
So let's back up a step. Who the heck do I think I am to be able to write a book about audience targeting and talk to you today for 25-minutes?
I am a Google Ads coach. I worked at Google for six years in the large customer sales organization and I run the Inside Google Ads course, podcast and soon to be book.
I've worked with more than 10,000 Google Ads accounts, the kind that spend $10 a day, the kind that spend $1 million a day, and everything in between.
So based on all that, here's what we're going to cover. I want to just do a quick level set to make sure we understand the difference between audience and content targeting, and what the capabilities are in Google Ads. I'm going to share with you some of the stuff you can't do anymore that you may not have realized. I'm going to share with you some of the new stuff you should definitely test. And then I'm going to share my top three targeting strategies for you to steal in Google Ads.
All right, so first things first, audience targeting, content targeting. What do we mean?
Audience targeting is targeting people based on who they are. Targeting parents, targeting small business owners, targeting people in-market for shoes. We don't care what they're doing online. Wherever they are online, we want to reach that kind of person.
Content targeting is the opposite: targeting people based on what they're engaging with. People watching certain YouTube channels, people browsing websites that have to do with certain topics, people searching for certain keywords. Search keywords are a type of content targeting. So when we want to reach our ideal audience, there are often multiple audience and content targeting ways to do so. And for today, we're focusing on audiences.
So what are those different kinds of audience targeting that are available in Google Ads? I put them into four different buckets.
The first one is Google's data. This is your detailed demographics, Affinity segments, life events, and In-market. It's taking all the amazing data that Google knows about all of us, and it's packaged up in a way where you can just check a box and instantly target the people who just got a new dog, who are In-market for trips to Paris, who are luxury shoppers, whatever it might be, taking Google's data, targeting people based on it.
Then we have your data segments, that lovely euphemism for remarketing. You can show ads again to people who have interacted with your website or app, who have engaged with you via paid and organic on Google. That's the new Google Engaged Audience. We'll talk about that more in a bit. People who've engaged with your YouTube content, and of course, your customer match list.
Now the third kind, and the kind where there's been a lot of change and deprecation is what I call the custom data, your Custom Segments and Combined Segments where you're taking data that Google has about people, but then slicing and dicing it in a way that's unique to your business.
And then last, the section that's really growing, the automation section, optimized targeting, showing ads to people who are like your converters. Audience expansion, showing ads to people who match similar audiences to those you've chosen. Audience signals and search themes in PMax trying to guide the automation, though ultimately the automation will do what the automation wants to do. Then Lookalike segments in Demand Gen, people who are similar to a seed list of people.
All right, so now that we have a lay of the land, what audience targeting is available to us?
We're going to talk about some audience targeting friends we've said goodbye to and some other ones that we've said hello to recently.
So first, who have we said goodbye to recently?
Well, similar segments are gone. And I know that we have Lookalikes now, but they are not the same thing. Lots of feature differences between them. The main one, of course, you can only use Lookalikes in Demand Gen. You could use similar segments in most campaign types.
Exact Match keywords are gone. I know we still have Exact Match, but if you've used Exact Match keywords at all recently, you know that your Search Terms Report is full of close variants and things that you wouldn't even consider a close variant, but somehow Google does. So truly Exact Match keywords, we've said goodbye. Those are gone.
Combined segments in Demand Gen and Video, are also gone. The only places you can use Combined Segments in Google Ads now are Search campaigns and Display campaigns. That's it.
Google audience exclusions are also gone. Again, in anything that uses the new audience builder, you cannot exclude an affinity segment or a detailed demographic. You can only exclude your remarketing lists.
So when you think of audience targeting, if you still think of this screen, this is the screen you see for now in Display campaigns, Search campaigns, and Shopping.
But this is the screen you're going to see in Demand Gen, Video, and in Performance Max audience signals. It's called the Audience Builder Workflow, and it does not have the same functionality we used to have.
So those are all the things we said goodbye to. There are some exciting new things we got to say hello to as well.
First is Google Engaged Audiences. And if you work with small business owners, you absolutely need to be using this. It is a beautifully elegant solution to all the issues we have with setting up remarketing and third-party cookie deprecations, et cetera. And the way it works is rather than someone clicking from your organic Google search results, landing on your website, and at that point, a tag firing, adding them to a list, et cetera - we know there's all kinds of issues with that now. Instead, as they're clicking to your website from Google, Google knows who that person is and Google will capture them and add them to your Google Engaged Audience. So anyone can use this and get one list automatically created in every Google Ads account, but especially for small business owners, a really powerful new audience tool.
Next is conversion-based customer lists. It's been around for about a year, but it's really gone under the radar. And you need to enable this in your account settings. You go to Admin, Account Settings, and under your Customer Match Settings, you can enable this. And what that does is it turns all of your conversion triggers into audience-building triggers. So for example, if you're tracking every time someone adds to cart as a conversion action then by turning this on, conversion based customer lists, now you'll start to build a list of people who have completed the conversion action add to cart, et cetera. So a really useful feature there for audience building.
Lookalike segments, I'll consider pretty new. We're all still testing them out, seeing if we like them or not. They are not the same as similar segments. They are much more similar to a Lookalike segment in Meta and it's still pretty new. And if you haven't tested it yet, love Demand Gen campaigns. I'm still iffy on Lookalikes for now.
All right, so I promised you that I was going to share three audience targeting strategies you can steal. So let's dive right into them.
The first is something I call non-linear targeting. And this is really, really useful in a few situations. I'm sure you've encountered at least one of these. Non-linear targeting is really helpful if you're operating with a client with a super small niche that has really low search volume, and so you're just having trouble driving that volume. And/or if you're in a place where there's really high CPCs, like for example, I've tried advertising my course on the keyword “Google Ads Course” before those CPCs are in the $20 to $40 range. I do not want to pay that. So non-linear targeting can be really helpful for that. And then third, non-linear targeting is really helpful if you operate in a sensitive interest category, like employment or health. If you're trying to target people based on things you can't use to target people, it's really helpful.
So what is non-linear targeting? Instead of saying, this is my target audience, I'm gonna target them. So like people in-market for mattresses, I sell mattresses, I'm going to target people in-market for mattresses. Great, that can work.
But non-linear targeting is thinking, what are other ways I can get to my target customer that may be more indirect but will get me to the end result?
With our mattress example, when do people need a mattress? Maybe when they move, they buy a new mattress. Maybe when people get married, they buy a new mattress. Maybe when people's babies outgrow their crib around the age of three, I'll be dealing with that soon for the second time, you know, they need to buy a new mattress. So suddenly we have some life events we can target.
What else?
So maybe when people buy a new bed frame, they'd also be interested in a new mattress. So let's target people who are in-market for bed frames, and on and on and on. So rather than just taking the direct route to get somewhere, we take our non-linear route to find all the other ways we can reach our target audience that are often more cost effective and potentially have higher volume.
So let me show you a few different ways we can do this with an example of an actual Google Ads coaching client I had. They sell personalized cross necklaces, and so their target audience is Christian. For very good reason, you cannot target Christians in Google Ads or any ad platform at all. So here's a few different ways we were able to employ a non-linear targeting strategy for them.
First is in Search. When CPCs are high, which wasn't the case here, but using it for the example, you can create a Custom Segment based on your search terms. That's a pretty standard strategy. CPCs are high. Let's take those things I want to use as search keywords, build a Custom Segment, target it in Demand Gen or Video.
What we can do going to the next step is look at: what are other things people might search for when they're not directly searching for me, but they're one stage before that?
So what I did is I Googled different life events for Christians, and I saw there's things called First Communion and First Eucharist, and these would be great times for someone to buy a personalized cross necklace. So now from a search perspective, we have all kinds of other keywords that could be really powerful for us to target. And we can also use these as part of a Custom Segment to reach these people as they're doing other things across Google. So that's step one for non-linear targeting.
We can also take this a step further, thinking again of other things people might be searching for before they land on, “Yes, the thing I want is a personalized cross necklace.” And so you can see here now, Christian gifts for women, Christian presents, First Communion gifts ideas. These are all things that we can target. There aren't restrictions on them. We can target them in Search. You can see there's a lot more volume there, and we can use them to build Custom Segments.
But let's go to the next step. What about going beyond Search and beyond keywords? How else can we reach our target audience?
So one thing I did here is I thought, well, okay, if my target audience is people who are Christian and would want a personalized cross necklace, what are other things they might do online? So I live in Toronto, I Googled churches in Toronto, and I added to a custom interest (as it's called in some campaign types, Custom Segment, as it's called in others) “people who browse websites similar to” and then listed all these different churches in Toronto. Because if you're checking out the website of your church, you want to know what time services are, when the youth group meeting is, right? Chances are you're Christian. So that would be a good target audience for me.
Another idea I had, is to set this up as a separate Custom Segment (but to fit on one slide, I put it here) what kind of apps would they have on their phone? Well, someone who has a Bible app on their phone, someone who is reading Bible verses and praying every day, that's probably the right kind of person I want to reach for my personalized cross necklaces. So that's something else I could target.
When you employ this strategy, again, I'm not saying, “Oh no! I can't target people of this religion and I can't reach them at all.” It's thinking what are other things people might do online, whether it's people with a certain interest or people in-market for a certain product you can't target directly, “What else do they do online that can help me reach them?”
And when you're trying to think of this, don't make up some persona like, it's Susie Sally and she does this. No, no, no. Think of a real person, a real customer you have or someone you think could be an ideal customer and think of a day in their life. What do they do first thing when they wake up in the morning? What's the first thing they check on their phone before they get out of bed? How do they commute to work? What news sources do they use? What social media do they use? And as you think through the day, you can think like I did, and what are all the different ways we can now target them non-linearly to try to reach them and inspire them throughout their day to check out our product.
Now, I mentioned non-linear targeting can be really helpful if you operate in a sensitive interest category, because if you do, you can't use Custom Segments and you can't use Remarketing. You only have Google's audiences. So if this is you, I want you to open up Audience Builder and browse through every single one of Google's audiences to think, is this something that overlaps with my audience segment?
In this example, I was going through it when I thought, huh, there's an in-market audience for personalized gifts and I'm trying to sell personalized cross necklaces. There's absolutely an overlap there. That could be a really interesting market for me to target. And then in doing so, when you hover your mouse on top, it'll tell you related audience segments, which you may want to target as well, or in this case, you may want to exclude.
Another one I found when I was browsing, that I didn't know until yesterday was an audience, is homeschooling parents. And I thought, hmm, does that overlap? So I Googled it: Homeschooling parents and religion. And I saw that, yes, a lot of people who homeschool their children do so for religious reasons. So that could be another audience I want to target is homeschooling parents, a non-linear route to get to my target audience.
The key takeaway here is even if you do have a direct audience - you can check the box on I sell mattresses and in-market for mattresses - it can often be more cost effective, more interesting to find non-linear routes around. Especially when there isn't an “off the shelf” audience to target, this is a great way to build your targeting strategy.
Now, in order for this to work, especially for targeting, for the personalized gifts audience or the homeschooling parents audience, trying to sell personalized cross necklaces, your creative has to do a lot of the heavy lifting for you.
And so that brings me to my second strategy today, which I call Creative Led targeting. Because your creative itself is a better signal than any audience signal. The key is you want your creative to appeal to your target audience and, just as importantly, not appeal to your not target audience.
I'm going to show you some examples here. We're going to play a game. I'm going to show you an image from a real Google ad without the text. And I want you to just shout out to yourself or guess what is this an ad for. Are you ready? [if you’re reading the transcript, I recommend skipping ahead to the third strategy, Indirect Competitor Targeting, or watching this episode on YouTube!]
Okay, what is this an ad for?
I'll give you a clue. This is the Ontario legislature. So it's like our state government building, for all you Americans.
Did anyone guess auto insurance?
Yeah, I don't think so. That was an ad for auto insurance.
Let's try another one. What's this an ad for?
Did you guess a website development agency? Yeah, I didn't either.
Let's try another one. What's this an ad for?
Dedicated servers in Canada.
So the common thing here, when we run ads, is we do have text next to our images, it's true, but your image is especially important with formats like Performance Max. If you're using optimized targeting, if you're using non-linear targeting, your creative has to really make clear what it is you offer so it appeals to your target audience and doesn't appeal to your not target audience.
Now let's go to some examples of ads that I still think are kind of ugly, but at least in my opinion, make it very clear what they sell.
You ready? What's this an ad for?
Gutter cleaning, gutter upgrades, right?
Okay, what's this an ad for?
There's text on the image, it makes it a lot easier. You can also see the kind of messaging people are using with Canadians right now. This is for American Public University.
Now, I don't want the takeaway here to be that you should just add text to your images, but you know what? Sometimes it can help. Because with this image, if you took away the text and it was a gentleman sitting on the bus, would it be an ad for his glasses? Would it be an ad for his coat? I don't know. But even by just having their logo there, it's like, okay, this is an education ad. I get it.
Now this example.
These are all real ads I saw. What's this an ad for?
The fastest, most affordable pen test on the market. I don't know what a pen test is. And you know what? Good. I'm not going to click on this ad. I am not the target audience.
I Googled it before including it in the presentation, just to be sure it was nothing bad, and a pen test is a penetration test. It's something for cybersecurity. Okay. So if you were in that field and you saw this ad and here's the text that went with it and you were in the market for a pen test, you would be really interested in this ad. It really speaks to you. They take days, not months for it. Cheaper. Great, but for me, I'm not the target audience. I scroll right by. I don't click. I will mention though the “schedule your test today.” That's implied interactivity. So this, that should have been disapproved anyway, but that's creative-led targeting.
It's having creative that uniquely speaks to your target audience and repels your not target audience. And as more and more targeting turns to signals, this is going to be more and more important for Google Ads practitioners.
All right, my third strategy for you today, I call Indirect Competitor targeting, So when you want to target your competitors, your basic strategy is Competitor Conquesting. Take your competitors' names, add them as search keywords.
Our intermediate level strategy might be turning those keywords into audiences, building a Custom Segment built on your competitors' websites or your competitors' search terms. Also great.
Advanced level is Indirect Competitor targeting. And another way you can think of this is like non-brand conquesting. Yes, really, because SEO and SEM really do work better together.
Here's how it works. You want to go to Keyword Planner, type in your competitor's website and see the kind of searches that come up for them. These are the kinds of keywords they're showing up for organically because what Keyword Planner tells you is Google's understanding of their website.
Now you have a whole list of keywords that you can target with ads, because ads show above organic. And by doing so, you can have a high quality score and a high click through rate and all those things we want in search because these are non-brand terms. And if this is your competitor, these will likely be relevant to you as well, and you can ensure that you're showing up with ads in the places where they would be showing up organically.
So Indirect competitor targeting is a great search strategy, but it is also a great audience strategy. These would also make great inputs for Custom Segments. They would make great inputs for search themes in your Performance Max campaigns if these are not showing up in your search category report. And these could even make excellent display/video keywords for more content targeting.
So these are the advanced Google Ads targeting strategies that I challenge you to test.
Non-linear targeting, finding another way to get to your target audience.
Creative-led targeting, having ad creative that appeals to your target audience and repels your not-target audience.
Indirect Competitor targeting, finding the non-brand searches your competitor ranks for and using them for your audience and content targeting strategies.
And of course, always testing new audience capabilities in Google Ads like Google Engaged Audiences or conversion-based customer lists.
Thank you so much. And at this time, we'll open it up for questions.
Brett Bodofsky: For the first question here, you covered a variety of Google audiences, And I was just wondering, are there any that you tend to avoid? And on the flip side, are there any specific audiences that you find yourself relying on the most or coming back to time and time again?
Ooh, Let me consult my cheat sheet on my wall again. I mean, customer match is the one thing that everyone should be using, uploading a customer list into Google Ads, as long as you have consent to do so, because even if you don't meet the $50,000 requirement to use it, you can still glean insight for it and it will still inform things like your optimized targeting and Smart Bidding. So that's one that still I think is so, so, so underutilized.
One I keep coming back to time and time again, and I've been making a lot more use of, is detailed demographics recently. It's one of the four Google audiences and especially for B2B targeting, I find it really helpful. We know that's trickier with Google Ads. And they have one for homeowners versus renters, and so for a lot of home service-based businesses I've been meeting with regularly in my coaching practice, we've been not only targeting homeowners, but excluding renters. And that's been really helpful for us as well. So you can get really creative with inclusion and exclusion of those Google audiences.
Brett Bodofsky: I love the fact that you mentioned the detailed demographic targeting. I think so often people really forget about that option and tend to focus on who are the customers that are just most ready to buy right now? Okay, let's target in-market audiences. But there's so many other options out there to capture the demand that might exist and or influence someone that wasn't originally going to make a purchase but influence them to now make the purchase.
So I have a couple more here for you. With the removal of similar segments, what do you see being as the best alternative for targeting similar audiences? And how do the results compare? I think you talked about perhaps one of these alternatives during your session, but would love to know more about like, you know, how you feel those results compared to the option that we used to have, which was similar audiences.
Yes, I actually think optimized targeting is a better substitute for similar segments than, my goodness, brain fart… Lookalikes! That's what they're called. So similar segments would find people who are similar to your remarketing lists, and Lookalikes does that too, but Lookalikes now works like Meta does where it's like a percentage of a target country that is most similar.
And so especially for small businesses, but I mean for businesses of all sizes, it's just going to be a list that's way too large. Even if you choose the most narrow lookalike segment option of 2.5%, I don't think 2.5% of Americans are going to be similar to my remarketing list. That's millions of people! So I actually prefer optimized targeting because what optimized targeting does is find people who are similar to your converters and ultimately conversion is what we want. I’ve found that to be a more suitable replacement for similar segments than lookalikes, also because optimized targeting is available in more campaign types and lookalikes are only in Demand Gen.
Brett Bodofsky: This one's more of general question, but I'm actually really excited to ask you because it pertains a lot to your career. So as a Google Ads coach, you must get a ton of reoccurring questions, really common questions that come up a lot. Just curious, what are some of the most common ones you're hearing as of late?
In my coaching practice, I have a bunch of people who are small business owners and they book one call with me, maybe two, because that's all they can afford. And I have other people who are agencies and freelancers who I meet with weekly, bi-weekly, monthly. So in those two groups, very different questions.
So I would say in the small business owner crowd, a big thing that will probably not be surprising to many people watching this is keyword match types and understanding that you have to uncheck the broad match setting at the campaign level. Otherwise, even if you try to use exact match keywords, we'll get switched to broad match. And then the search term versus the keyword and the close variants, a lot of my coaching revolves around there right now. That tends to be a hot topic.
I would say on the other side of the house with the more advanced practitioners, I tend to have a lot of clients recently and their clients are home service providers. It's a space I've been working with a lot. I’ve really been leaning into obviously an issue in that space - there’s two issues, high CPCs and seasonality, really high demand in the summer, low demand in the winter. How do we compensate for that?
For every agency and every client, it's different, but thinking through kind of those strategic issues and how do we address that and how does that translate to in-account optimizations? I've been working with that with quite a few different agency and freelancer clients lately.
Brett Bodofsky: Tremendous response. Yeah, definitely sounds like probably one of the more common questions that come up are things surrounding the common pitfalls and nuances in the platform that if you're not aware of such, you know, it could cause some serious problems.
You don't know what you don't know, yeah exactly, and that's why it's good to ask questions.
Brett Bodofsky: So this question is in particular to audiences, as you discussed a lot about. How do you think about not over-restricting? Because of course, we want to target the most optimal user that's going to drive the highest value for a client. But there's also audience-sized limits that we need to consider, like minimum requirements and things of that nature. So just curious what your thought process is there.
Yeah, I guess it's different from a Search perspective with audiences as a layer, or Shopping, I should say, vs. like Display, Video, Demand Gen where the audience targeting is the targeting.
But I would say from Search and Shopping, I will almost always observe before I target. And with Search specifically, you can exclude audiences in Search, you can't exclude audiences in Shopping. So with Search, a piece of advice I've been giving a lot of my coaching clients lately is don't just observe the audiences you think will perform really well, also observe audiences you think will not perform well. And then if you're proven right, you can exclude them. So always be thinking about the exclusion as well as the inclusion.
On the other side of the house, you know, Display, Demand Gen and Video, trying to layer audience and content targeting together - it can get really narrow, but often you don't know what you don't know about what the right audience is gonna be for you.
An example I love was a client I worked with at Google and they were testing Video for the first time. This was like eight years ago, and they tested the luxury shoppers affinity audience and the in-market for the category they sell. And the luxury shopping audience outperformed because they sell a very expensive product at the top of their category. So they don't sell shoes, but let's say it was shoes. The in-market for shoes did not work as well because most people were not looking for, you know, $100 shoes.
So I say that to say, the audience that you think, that linear, perfect thing may not be right. And so that was when I first started thinking about non-linear targeting, which I spoke about here, is I'm trying to find the other ways to get at your target audience. Because you know, the obvious linear way, all your competitors are doing that too. So go zig when they zag.
Brett Bodofsky: I super appreciate that response. I think that's a great way to identify non-linear audiences is by observing them within Search. So you would probably suggest then to observe as many audiences as you please within Search. It's not going to restrict anything so long as that observation setting is checked. And then you'll get data behind those audiences, which then can influence the decision of whether or not you want to use them in Demand Gen or PMax.
Yeah, I will say some things. So don't target too many, because each user can only be attributed to one audience at a time. I've seen people add like 100 audiences in observation and then the data just gets way too messy.
And the second tip I'll say is don't pick any top-level audiences. So like there's in-market home and garden and then underneath that there's in-market for, I don't know, bathroom. And then under that, might be like… toilet and tub. I'm making it up, there's not an in-market for toilets, but you know what I mean?
So pick the lowest, most specific levels you can - don't just pick the top level ones - to get better data to optimize for.
And in total, in a Search campaign, I wouldn't target more than like 20 audiences on observation, just because you're not going to be able to analyze all that data, unless you're spending $1 million dollars a day - and then, by all means.
Brett Bodofsky: That's extremely interesting actually. So if you were to have a bunch of observation audiences and a person happens to fall within both audiences, the data is only going to be reported for one of those audiences. Is that what you're saying?
Yeah, it's one of the many rabbit holes I went down when writing my book. There's something called an audience attribution hierarchy. Fun times. And yeah, so if a user matches to multiple audiences, they'll just get slotted into one of them. And if you're choosing a lot of really similar audiences or stacked audiences, you know, in-market for business services and in-market for SEO & SEM services, which falls under that, it can make things really messy. That's why when it came to add all the audiences I was like, no, no, no, add like, 10 to 20, some you think will do really well, some you think you won't do well. In Shopping, you can't exclude, so no point adding ones to exclude there, but yeah, that's how I'm sort of thinking about audience observation in Search and Shopping these days.
Brett Bodofsky: Lovely. Well, we are at time now. Super appreciate all these thoughtful responses, Jyll, and your contributions to the Search community. They're felt week in and week out. We always love seeing your post on socials. You're always contributing to a conference, an article, something of that nature. And again, on behalf of the entire Search community, we'd really like to thank you.
Thank you so much, Brett, Sarah, and the PSA for having me today.
Thanks for joining me for this special edition episode about advanced audience targeting strategies. Next week, we'll be back to regularly scheduled programming around here, including a new Insider Challenge for you to solve.
I'm Jyll Saskin Gales and I'll see you next time Inside Google Ads.